How to Take Your Small Business Mobile – Jamie Turner

Jamie-Turner-PinterestWhat’s more important, mobile or social? The correct answer is both! Mobile and social are coming together to create a powerhouse marketing tool for your business.

“Responsive” web design versus “adaptive” web design – what’s the difference? A lot when you consider how your customers search for you from their desktop PC’s versus their smartphones.

Mobile is changing the way people search. What about using video and coupons in your marketing scheme? Jaime gives us the pros and cons as well as tips and trends to create successful marketing strategies to boost your business.

Jamie Turner is an author, globally recognized key-note speaker, as well as the founder of 60 Second Communications, a full-service marketing agency who counts Coca-Cola, CNN and AT&T among his clients. Jaime is a leading authority on setting up and running effective social media campaigns.

Rich Brooks: Welcome to The Marketing Agents Podcast, today we have Jaime Turner on the show. Jaime is an internationally recognized author and a marketing thought leader who has helped the Coca-Cola Company, AT&T, CNN – and probably a number of other global brands that you may have head of – tackle complex marketing problems. He is the CEO of 60 Second Communications, a full service marketing agency, with experience working for Coca-Cola Company, Holiday Inn, TransUnion and others. He’s also the founder of, an online magazine that provides tips and techniques from marketers around the globe. Jaime’s a regular guest on CNN and HLN on the topics of social media marketing, mobile marketing and branding. He is the co-author of Go Mobile – which sits on my desk right now – and which was the #1 best selling mobile marketing book on Amazon when it was first released. And also, How To Make Money With Social Media, which has just been released in its second edition. Jamie, welcome to the show.

Jamie Turner: Hey, glad to be here. This is fabulous, I’m thrilled to be talking to everyone in Maine and everyone all over the United States and all over the world probably listens to your show. So, glad to be here, Rich, and I’m ready to go.

Rich: We actually to get people from all over on the show, and since we’re talking about mobile today our show actually plays well with this segment because one of the things people started doing – and in part because I keep on reminding them to do it – is taking pictures of wherever they are in the world with their smartphone and then letting me know where they are. And we just got some nice photos of somebody listening to the show in Milan just the other day.

Jamie: I love that! Because it’s a perfect use of social and mobile. It’s saying, “Hey guys, you’re around the globe, you’re all over the place, let me know where you are.” And that deepens your engagement with your listeners and your readers and all that sort of stuff, and that’s terrific. I’m going to totally steal that idea.

Rich: You totally can. Which brings us to our very first question… Quick! What’s more important, mobile or social?

Jamie: Great question, and the short answer is they’re both important because the key thing for you as a business owner or as a marketer is figure out where your consumers are, and if you are better able to reach them via social, that’s great. If you’re better able to reach them via mobile, that’s great. Ideally you’d be reaching them through both, and let’s not forget that social and mobile are coming together. And what do I mean by that? Well, Facebook as an example, generates more than half of their revenue through mobile right now. So Social media and mobile marketing are both kind of really coming together and they’re almost one and the same. If you’re going to talk to people via Facebook, via LinkedIn, via Google+, via whatever, part of the time – a third of the time – they’re going to be accessing your engagement with them via a smartphone or at least a tablet, so you need to kind of have that mindset that social and mobile are coming together and that those two things coming together are the reason that you should be using both of them in order to connect with your prospects and customers.

Rich: Well that’s good to know, because obviously this show is all about using search – which we’re not talking about today – but search, social and mobile, to reach more of your ideal customers. Before we started recording, you and I were talking a little bit about our previous histories putting on conferences and we’ve got The Agents Of Change coming up again, that’s all about search, social and mobile, and I agree with you that we are seeing a lot more activity in both social and mobile. So, here’s the thing though, I’m a small business owner and as the President of flyte I work with a lot of small business owners and marketers, and they’re looking at mobile now in some ways the way they looked at websites 5 or 10 years ago. Such as, “Maybe one day I’ll need a mobile strategy, but not yet.” What do you say when you hear that?

Jamie: Two things. First of all, you as a business owner – whether it’s a small business or large business – need to be where your consumers are. You’re consumers are on mobile, in fact, in the United States more than half of our time is spent on mobile devices. That requires a qualification, a mobile device is defined as a smartphone or a tablet.   But we spend more than half our time on smartphones and tablets as opposed to desktop computer. So that’s the number one thing to keep in mind. The second thing is, I understand where they’re coming from. Social media was a piece of cake. I do LinkedIn, I know how to do Facebook, I can do that I can do it for my business, but mobile, “Huh, tell me what to do there?” And so a lot of times people are confused by the landscape of – and we can talk about that in a minute – but people are confused by what the landscape is and they’re also confused by the technology side of it. And I’m here to say, ”It’s not as scary as it might seem at first pass.”

Rich: I think that’s a good point. In fact, I do want to get to the landscape, but let’s just say that somebody – after they listen to today’s show – they’ve got no experience in mobile and they ask the question, “Where do I start?”

Jamie: Very first thing is mobile optimize your website, make sure your website uses responsive design or some of the other technologies in order to make sure that the website can be seen on a smartphone pretty easily. That’s the very, very first thing you should do. Then after that you can start using other mobile technologies to drive people to your website. And when you use those mobile technologies – whether it’s mobile display, mobile paid search, QR codes which are going away, other things like location based services and things like that – all of those things should be driving your customer back to your mobile website the same way five years ago using Facebook to drive people back to your website. It’s that same “hub and spoke” model that HubSpot and everybody else has talked about for so long. We’re always trying to drive people back to a central point – and your central point is your website – and your website should be mobile optimized so that if they’re looking at things at a stoplight – hopefully not – on a sidewalk, they will be able to check out your company from where they’re standing.

Rich: Alright, so if I decide, “Yeah, ok, I agree with you Jaime. I will start with a mobile website,” what do I tell my web developer? Do I just say to him, “Hey listen, I need a mobile site?” Will he or she know what to do, or do I need to give them a little bit more direction?

Jamie: Well, I know that for example you do web development I think at your firm, If I remember correctly. And so the very first thing, I’d go, “Rich, I’m a business owner, get me a mobile website.”, and you would know how to do that and take care of it. So the first step is to talk to your agency, talk to your web design firm and get them to do it, they should be able to do it. If you’re working with a web design firm that says, “We don’t know how to do that.”, get a new web design firm because they really are behind the curve. But, if you’re a “do it yourselfer”, some people say, “Hey, I got a WordPress website, I’m taking care of this myself.”, your WordPress theme should be responsive. And by that I mean it changes the content as your screen gets smaller. Here’s something that is semi-controversial but I would like to say – and Rich, you’ll get where I’m going with all this – I think responsive sites are a challenge in this sense. When you do a responsive site using WordPress, it takes the existing content and just repackages it for a smaller screen. Well, if I am a customer – let’s say you’re a restaurant and I’m at my desktop computer – I want to know everything about your restaurant. If I’m in a car coming from seeing a movie and I’m looking at your website to go to dinner, bottom line is I want to know very little. I want to know directions I want to know hours of operation, and I might want to know prices and I want to know your phone number. Other than that, I don’t want to know anything. Responsive design – if you’re using a WordPress template – just repackages the entire site onto a small screen. I think thats not very good. What I do for my website is called “dynamic serving”. Basically I have sniffer code at the top of the site and it says, “Are you coming in from a smartphone or a desktop/” If you’re a desktop it serves up certain pages, if you’re a smartphone it serves up different pages. Now I spoke in shorthand there, Rich, you’re probably following – but if anybody has additional questions on that contact Rich, contact me and we’ll explain what all that means – but the bottom line is there’s a couple of different routes to go and I prefer “dynamic serving”, actually ADAPTIVE serving – I said dynamic and I should have said “adaptive serving”. I covered a lot of ground there, Rich, and I kind of rambled on, but take it away you can steer us back into the right direction.

Rich: Well, let me recap that to make sure that I understand what you’re saying. So for example, one thing that a lot of sites are doing now is called “responsive web design” – as you mentioned – and like you said can often take by default all the information that fits in your desktop and like digital origami, will filter that down to either a tablet or a smartphone size that makes sense. I actually wrote an article a couple years back – it was the 5th or 6th post of The Marketing Agents when it was also a blog not just a podcast – called 5 Reasons Why Responsive Design Was Bad For Your Business. It was written on a website that was responsive, so I knew that I was going to get a little bit of heat for this, but it was talking about some of the same issues that you brought up. Now I will say that right now almost all the stuff that flyte is building is responsive. I understand exactly some of the pros and cons. Sometimes some people might argue that responsive is a one size fits all, and of course that’s never the situation. So responsive may be exactly what most businesses need, but you – whoever you are listening – may have more specific needs and it may not be the right fit for you. So it is important to get a better understanding of responsive. Does that also kind of go along with what you’re saying, Jamie?

Jamie: It does. And you and I, before getting on here, said, “Let’s make this a dialog”, because when you and I learn stuff from each other, the folks listening are also learning, So let’s talk about a couple of things. First of all, you and I are in sync on the responsive side of the equation which is, “Yeah, you know, ok that works.” However, it’s dropping all of your content into a tiny, little screen, and that’s not really taking the user’s context into consideration. So what I call – and you and I, Rich, will make an official point of view here on what the terminology should be – we all know what responsive is, I call the other side of the equation “adaptive”. And what I mean by that is I have a line of sniffer code at the top of my website. Sniffer code is just a line of code that says. “how big is the screen of the person who’s coming in to my website?” And if it’s a big screen. it says “This is a desktop and I’m going to take them over to this homepage.” If it’s a smaller screen, then it says, “Ok, this is a smartphone. I’m going to take them over to this homepage”, which is my mobile homepage. I call that “adaptive”, and Rich I don’t know if you have a different term for it.

Rich: I like “adaptive”, that makes sense.

Jamie: Ok. Well then adaptive also has it’s downsides. When I do a new landing page for whatever it is – an ebook download – if I don’t create a mobile version of that page from my adaptive site, then people are directed to the regular website. And so it’s almost like there’s no perfect answer to this, responsive or adaptive, I’m more on the adaptive side of the equation and a lot of people are more on the responsive side of the equation. You really just have to sit down and figure out what’s best for your business.

Rich: I think that’s exactly right, you ultimately have to make that right decision. Now I will say – using your restaurant example before – one of the things we’ve done in the past and continue to do is we would build that restaurant website on a responsive site, but we use an extra plugin, that when somebody arrives on the homepage on a smartphone, we give them a limited menu that kind of pops up and is only shown on the mobile version. Similar to what WPtouch Pro used to do. So let’s say that you get to our responsive website, it says, “Oh look, Rich is on a smartphone, so what we’re going to do is we’re going to put up a phone number – because so many people doing mobile design forget that “hey it’s on a phone, let’s put the phone number first and foremost” – directions, and then maybe hours or something similar like that. So that can be another “hack” that will make your responsive website more adaptive for your users.

Jamie: I love that. And that goes back to the heart of the issue which is what the starting point of this dialog was, which was the bottom line is if you’re a restaurant – or any business – you don’t want any piece of information on your website to be given to somebody on a smartphone. They don’t want it, you’re not optimizing where they are and taking their context into consideration. Do you remember the name of the plugin, because I love that solution which is, “Oh, we’re just going to serve up this limited information based on the fact that you’re on a smartphone?”

Rich: You know what Jaime, because these days I’ve actually atrophied everything in my brain that has to do with development, I don’t. But I’m going to talk to Andy, my WordPress developer, we’ll get those into the show notes – of course I’ll email you directly – and I’ll find out if it was a specific plugin he used or if he actually hand wrote something. But if it is a plugin we’ll certainly share that in the show notes. Just one more reason to hit the show notes today people.

Jamie: Yeah, I would love that. And by the way, I’m relieved and happy to know that somebody else on the planet has the same memory challenges as I do. And it’s not that our memories are bad, folks, it’s that we’ve got so many of them they’re all cluttered up in there.

Rich: Yeah, I’ve outsourced all of my memory to Google anyways at this point.

Jamie: Right!

Rich: Alright, so we’ve talked about starting with the website, making sure we have a mobile-friendly website. But what are some of the other mobile opportunities – maybe this is the landscape opportunity that you were getting to – what are some of the other mobile opportunities, small business especially, have to reach and engage our ideal customers?

Jamie: Yeah, absolutely. The starting point.. let me tell a quick story. So I have an agency just like you do, and I get a call from a client prospect and she says, “Jaime, we need a mobile app.” And I said, “Well, maybe you do, let’s talk about your goals and objectives.” And she’s like, “No, no, no, I need a mobile app.” And I’m like, “Ok, that’s ok. We can do a mobile app for you, but lets talk about your objectives.” I get out to her office, the CEO is there, and he says, “Jaime, we need a mobile app!” “Well, ok, wait. Do you have a mobile responsive website?” “No, I don’t .” Well, that’s the starting point, you gotta have that. And there are other things you should be doing before you get to an app. So I always do it in this order: start with getting a mobilized website so they can be read on a smartphone. The second thing after that is really easy, it’s mobile paid search. It’s not for everybody but if you’re a tire repair store, a tire shop, then you basically want to be in mobile paid search, because somebody with a flat tire is doing a search on their smartphone saying, “Where can I get tires nearby?”, and you want to pop up – there’s only three little things on the paid search side of that equation – but you want to be there because it takes that person’s location into consideration. They say, “Somebody 5 minutes down the road is looking for a tire, let’s go here.” So that’s the second thing I do is mobile paid search. The third is mobile display, and that’s just a fancy term for banner ads. The easiest thing to do on mobile display is to use Google’s display ad network. It’s basically a do it yourself form of it, however, there are companies out there – like Richs, like mine, like other companies – that will say, “Hey, if you’re spending a certain amount of money, we can do a whole mobile display campaign for you.” And the targeting capabilities on mobile display are phenomenal. You can go into demographic targeting, you can go into behavioral targeting, just target people in airports, you can just target people who have AT&T phones instead of Verizon phones, you can just target people who are on iPhones instead of Androids, you can just go into amazing levels of detail, and then there’s a whole other layer after that that gets into you can tie people’s purchase behaviors to who gets your ads. So if somebody is buying Pedigree dog food, you can just send ads to the people who buy Pedigree dog food and skip over all the people who aren’t buying Pedigree dog food because they don’t have a dog or they own a cat or they like another brand. really, really cool stuff on that. So just to do a quick recap, start with a mobile website, second is do mobile paid search, then get into mobile display, and then after that you’ll want to do apps. QR codes are going away as we mentioned. Location based services like Leveraging, Foursquare or Yelp in order to drive traffic – that’s a no brainer – you’re going to want to do that kind of early, too. But those are the primary things out there that you need to be looking at.

Rich: Alright, so you did a good recap so I don’t need to. Start with the website, mobile site, go into paid search, and then you talked a lot about the display ads as well, the mobile display ads. And actually I know you didn’t get my questions before hand because I didn’t share them with you, but you did actually start to answer one of my other questions. You mentioned that there’s the Google ad network, and that’s what I kind of wanted to get at. Let’s say that we are interested in this – and maybe there’s only Google out there – but what other choices do we have? Do we need to go to a big agency to buy in the same way that we buy TV or radio, or can we… how do we make sure that we get in front of those people that are near our location or who have a certain cell phone or it’s a certain type of day? And also I’ve read that we can also target people by certain demographics like gender or age. is that even possible?

Jamie: It is. I’ll answer your question, and it’s a great question because it kind of opens the door to the main thing that I think is the fascinating thing on mobile. So, the question is basically if I’m a small or mid-sized business, how do I get into mobile display or mobile banner ads? The first thing is, you go to the Google display ad network. So if you’re on Google AdWords and you’re already buying paid search, you can find your way to the Google display ad network, and then you basically upload your stuff that you want Google to place for you. It’s good for do it yourselfers, it can serve up ads to kind of junky websites – so sometimes you’re running on junk and you have to factor that in – that’s a wasted impression – it’s tying my brand to a junky website brand and all that sort of stuff. So the next level up, Rich, is to go to your company, my company or go to mobile ad networks, the one that we work with a lot is called 4Info, there are other ones out there called Millennial Media, all that kind of stuff. And whether you go to an agency and say, “Hey Rich, can you work with us on this?” Or, you go to 4Info directly, you can work with them and basically say, “We need to place an ad only running in Portland, Maine and that’s the only place we want to run it.” So I’m going to pause there for a second and just see if you have any additional questions on that, and then I’d like to take everybody through the targeting side of the equation, because it can go much deeper. But let me pause a second and see if theres anything you want me to add to that.

Rich: No, I think that’s good, and I would love you to talk about the targeting, please.

Jamie: Yeah, so here’s just what’s so cool. When I wrote Go Mobile I said,”Alright, I’m going to do the hardest targeting I can possibly do and see if I can do that on mobile. I want to target doctors who live within 3 miles of a seashore who have also bought a yacht. Is there a way to do that?” And there actually is. Now the fact is that there is only 3 of them, so it’d be a highly inefficient buy, but you can get down to that level.

Rich: Now, do they have to buy their yacht through a mobile device to actually fall into that? Like, how do they get that information, I wonder?

Jamie: That’s actually a good question. That would actually be taking data from companies that sell lists of people who own yachts, and then tying that data to lists of people that you can access via mobile device and just sending the ad to them. So again, it’s an extreme example, it’s taking 2 different disciplines – the direct mail industry combined with the mobile industry – and putting them all together. Nobody in a million years would do it because again you’d have 3 doctors and you’d have spent a year getting everything worked out. But let me talk about some easier things. Let’s start with geo-locational. So I’m a restaurant, I’ve got 5 restaurants in neighborhoods throughout Portland, Maine, and all I want to do is within a 5-mile radius of those restaurants. You can do that. But let’s say you’re also a hotel company and you want to target people who are in your competitor’s hotels – like the salespeople who book in those competitive hotels every other week because they’re on the road all the time – you want to target them, you can target them based on stuff. Or, if you want to go in – and this is where it gets really interesting – we can take frequent shopping card data and tie that to your specific mobile device. So this is very, very advanced stuff. But Rich, we can go in and we don’t know what phone you use, but we know basically that a guy named Rich Brooks shops at his local grocery store and always buys Pedigree dog food, and we’ve got that on a frequent shopper data card. And then we say, “Well where does Rich Brooks live?” We can actually tie it to your home address – and for privacy advocates we can open up that discussion is you want to – but then we tie it to your home address and then we just serve ads to your mobile device because we know what you’ve been shopping for at the grocery store. So I’ve covered a lot of ground there, a lot of different approaches. If there’s one thing you walk away with from this kind of dialog that Rich and I have been having, just remember this, mobile has incredible, amazing targeting technologies built into it and that’s where the future is in terms of how you can reach very, very specific people who are on their mobile devices, and it goes everything from demographics to location to even purchase behavior and you can target people based on that. It’s really, really fascinating stuff.

Rich: It’s definitely interesting. How well we can target people as well as marketers. It’s exciting as consumers and quite a little bit creepy. It’s always that balancing act, I guess, as these tools get more and more sophisticated. Let’s leave ads behind for a minute, I know that your book is also about social, and you talk a lot about how mobile and social work so well together. So let’s talk about that. Whether we’re a small business owner or maybe a professional out there, we’ve got our mobile device handy, what kind of tactics or tips do you have in terms of using mobile and social together maybe when we’re out there on the road?

Jamie: Yeah, that’s a great question. How To Make Money With Social Media has an entire section devoted to social and mobile. You know the book is about social, as I said earlier social and mobile are merging and when they merge they’re really one and the same, you have to factor that in.   So a starting point is, let’s make sure if you’re doing email marketing that your emails can be read on a mobile device because in the business community more than 50% of the time people are reading their emails off of a mobile device. So that’s in the business community, and the population at large is slightly less than 50% but either way you need to make sure that when somebody opens up your email on a mobile device it’s optimized for mobile so it can be read on a mobile device and all that sort of stuff. The second thing on the social front is leveraging location based services like Instagram – which is a mobile tool but it’s also a social tool – in order to leverage it for promotional purposes. So it might be something like, “Follow us on Instagram and we’ll follow you back. If we see you with our product..” Rich, you do this. You mentioned you had a guy in Milan who took a picture and shared it with you and he was one of your followers and you’re acknowledging that and sharing that with them. Well as a brand and as a corporation, you can so the same thing. Take a picture of yourself with Coca-Cola around the world, upload it to the Instagram account, we’ll follow you back and we’ll talk about it. Other things include of course Facebook. Facebook now has something called “native advertising”, and people are probably familiar with it but if not it’s basically embedding an ad for a product into the stream so that it feels a little bit more as though it’s part of the stream of Facebook. And so that’s another social mobile tool, and then other things that you just factor in and let’s make sure if we’re tweeting that we’re considering the fact that half the people that are reading our tweets are probably going to be on a mobile device when we do it. All that sort of stuff but it adds up to taking a look at where your consumers are, acknowledging that they’re on mobile and saying let;s just take that into consideration whether we’re doing email marketing or whether we’re doing Instagram, whether we’re doing Twitter, let’s just understand that the probability of there’s a good chance somebody reading this will be doing it off their mobile device.

Rich: Alright. So again just keeping that focus on the fact that so many people are going to have a mobile device in their hands, and not all of us are going to be tied to a desktop.

Jamie: Yeah, yeah, great point. I totally agree with you.

Rich: Quick question – How are you, or how do you, recommend that we start to use video in mobile – or on mobile – basically because so many people are either taking videos with their phones or watching videos on their mobile devices?

Jamie: You’re definitely right that essentially incorporating video into your mobile marketing is important because people are using it more and more. there;s one thing that keeps coming up and that is, people pay for data. So they’re saying, “Everytime I watch a video I’m getting dinged for my data and that makes my cost go up.” So you have to use it judiciously. However, let’s take the case of a small business person who says, “I’ve got a small business, I don’t have a big budget, how can I incorporate video into what I’m doing on the mobile front?” And that would again be a perfect example would be jumping back to the social mobile side of the equation. Share your videos with us, either on Instagram or Vimeo, Snapchat, all that sort of stuff, and let’s do something that is fun and engaging and let’s people engage with our brand and does it in a way with alot of those because they’re short format, 6-second videos that doesn’t eat into people’s data packages too much, but you can still get engagement with people on our brand. Remember one last thing on all that is people who when they see that your brand is using social/mobile to engage with them, even if they don’t engage with you they still trigger in their brain, “Huh, this company is at the forefront of all this. This company is a progressive company. This company is always looking for new ways to reach out to me, their consumer. And that’s a positive brand impression. So even if they don’t actually connect with you, they’re still getting a brand impression that your company is cutting edge, forward engaged in a lot of different paths. I think that’s very, very important as well.

Rich: Absolutely. And I think that the more you do these things, the more comfortable your storytelling and voice, and the more comfortable you become in your own voice. I’m actually looking out my back window at a yacht sales company right now that we have done some business with, and one of the things that we had suggested to them – because we saw on YouTube that every time they posted a yacht for sale they would get 2,200 views and not really promote it at all, because people who love yachts, love yachts – and what I suggested is if it was so much work for you to do this, why not just create Vine videos and do a 6-second review of a used boat? And then when I came up with the idea, 2 days later Instagram came out with their 15-second videos and suddenly it was a lot more doable. But are there things that you can be reviewing in 6-15 seconds that you can be sharing through social and mobile as well?

Jamie: I love that idea. That’s exactly right. Do a 6-15 second video. We should all be so lucky to be looking out our back window at a yacht, so congratulations and I’m already daydreaming of coming up for a visit at some point in time.

Rich: There you go, I’ll send you a picture. One more question. Coupons on mobile, good idea or not?

Jamie: The common perception is that it’s a good idea. the practical reality is that it’s a little bit of a challenge. Here’s what I mean by that. There’s data that came out a few years ago that said “mobile coupons are validated at a rate 10 times greater than traditional coupons.”   That data is probably still accurate, it’s probably down to about 5 times greater now. However, it just becomes a lot of work with some major brands and a lot of them are in grocery stores, and it becomes a logistical challenge a lot of times to coordinate a coupon that’s going to be served up on the mobile device, brought into the store – and the store has to be aware of it – it has to be scanned and it has to go back to the company and then they have to have it in their system. So there’s a lot of labor involved in that, and you could argue that there’s labor involved in any kind of coupon thing. So the main point is, the commonly held belief is it’s a no-brainer. the practical reality is, it’s a little more complex than you might think it is. It still may be viable for your company, but just tread carefully and know that it can get pretty labor intensive once you start peeling away the onion on that.

Rich: Alright. And maybe a better idea – especially if you’re a small business – is if you don’t have to go with that level of logistics, then don’t. And maybe if you’re pushing out a mobile ad that’s about your pizza parlor is that you just say it’s 10% off your next pizza just show this coupon on your screen when you order from us, or something like that.

Jamie: Right, and then you’re not having to tie in the logistics, the server just goes, “Ok, great. You get the 10% discount.” That’s a much better and easier use than trying to tie everything into your massive computer database and all that sort of thing.

Rich: Awesome. Jamie, this has been a lot of fun. I appreciate your time. I know people are going to want to learn more, they’re going to want to read your book, where can we find out more about you online?

Jamie: I appreciate that, my name is Jaime Turner, I have a blog called I also have an agency called 60 Second Communication, it’s a spin off from the blog. Funny, quick story on that. I get asked to speak around the globe, I come off the stage and after doing speeches people would say, “Well that was great, do you do any of this stuff?” And I was like, “No, I don’t do anything, I just talk about doing stuff.” And then I finally decided, well, I’ll start an agency and start doing some of this stuff. And that’s been wonderful because you learn so much more about just the theory, you learn the practical reality of things, And then the most recent book is called, How To Make Money With Social Media. It’s out on its second edition now, and I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to sell my stuff that way a little bit, Rich. I appreciate it.

Rich: No problem. I’m sure that the book and you’re website have just as much great information as you’ve shared with us today. As always we’re going to have all those links in the show notes. Jamie, thank you very much for your time today.

Jamie: Cool! Thanks, Rich, I appreciate it.

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